Subtlety Rogue PvP Guide

Updated for Cataclysm 4.3

Table of Contents

 

Subtlety rogues present a combination of DPS and utility allowing them to do well in both PvP and PvE. In the DPS race an Assassination or Combat build might pump out more overall damage, due to easier rotations, but Subtlety is more fun and more flexible. And Assassination doesn’t have Shadowstep.

Note: Some aspects of this guide may not apply to your Sub. Rogue until higher level. If you are interested in getting your character to max level quickly, take a look at this leveling guide.

Cataclysm brought to Subtlety Rogues a brutal opener and solid DPS capabilities. New talents and abilities give this build more functionality that it’s had in quite some time. Skill is skill, though. With it, other players in the PvP game will worry about you. Without it, you’re just another doormat.

Damage? Overall damage is just fine, thank you. Proof? Sub. Rogues are #1 DPS in t12 gear and in the top 5 in t13. No, that isn’t a PvP sim. Yes, it does give some idea of damage capability.

Pop in, Pop out: Your Waylay (Optional) and Find Weakness (not optional) talents, along with the Master of Subtlety ability (gained when you choose Sub.) gives you a few seconds of extra control and damage coming out of stealth. Wait longer and your opponent is attacking faster and has a lot more armor and you’re doing less damage.

Best Race: Orc for the Blood Fury ability and stun resistance, Human for the Escape ability (which allows using two DPS trinkets.) All races can do just fine as Sub.

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Subtlety PvP Talent Builds

There’s a fair variation in talents to pick from here, depending on how you like to play. Do you do random or rated BGs, Arena (2s, 3s, 5s?) Do you want to be purely offensive or have more survivability?

  • Arena build – This build assumes that you’re backstabbing a lot, which also means that you’re good at getting and staying behind your opponent(s.)

 

4.3 Patch Notes for Subtlety Rogues

There were a whole lot of changes for Rogues in 4.3:

  • Wound Poison now reduces the target’s healing received by 25%, up from 10%.
  • Tanking changes should make it harder to pull threat from the tanks.
  • Yep, that’s it. For all Rogues.

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Subtlety Stats:

  • For all roles: Agility way before everything else
  • Wpn DPS > Agility > Resilience > 5% melee hit > Crit > Haste.
  • Expertise and Mastery aren’t so hot.
  • (Spell Penetration is useful for Assassination, not Sub.)
  • PvP Reforge: Reforge weakest stats (Master) into hit (until you have 5%) and Crit.

 

Weapons:

  • DPS > Agility
  • Slow Dagger in main hand, fast in off-hand – Sub doesn’t require daggers, but you will lose Backstab and certain damage bonuses if you don’t use them.
  • Try to obtain Fear and Vengence. Note that the quest to get these weapons will cost you 10k gold.

 

Poisons:

  • Other than Crippling poisons aren’t a big damage thing for Sub., though it’s still free damage and some utility and control.
  • Main Hand: Wound or Mind Numbing or Deadly, depending on who you’re fighting.
    Deadly for Rogues and Ferals, Wound or Mind for Healers.
  • Off hand: Crippling
  • Throwing: Crippling

Gems:

+40 (or +50) Agility gems, period. Ignore the socket bonus unless it’s +20 Agility or better per gem.

  1. Red: Delicate Queen’s Garnet or Delicate Inferno Ruby in all slots
  2. Meta: Agile Shadowspirit Diamond – Requires 3 red gems, which shouldn’t be an issue.
  3. PvP Resilience gems

 

Enchants for Level 85 Subtlety Rogues

Lower level (cheaper) enchants are also shown.

Note: Landslide procs from separate weapons do stack with each other. Back to back procs from the same weapon do
not stack.

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Professions

Certain professions provide self-only buffs/enchants. Some of these are of more use than others, but none are wildly better. A few points of Crit (skinning) instead of Ag (leatherworking) won’t ruin the raid, though you might be punted from the MinMax club.

All the professions provide some kind of self-only craft that averages out to about 50-100 Agility. Blacksmithing might actually be the best if you can afford the new epic gems, since that profession allows you two slot two of them giving you a total +100 Agility bonus instead of +80 from the other profs.

The Epic gems also mean that Jewelcrafting only provides a 51 point Agi. bonus (3 self-only +67 Ag. gems Vs. three +50 Del. Queen’s Garnet gems.)

Best for cash, but still being useful? Herbalism and mining. If you don’t PvP then mining has less utility since you won’t need the Stam as much. Basically the buffs from the gathering profs aren’t nearly as cool as those from the crafting profs.

  • Leatherworking – Your Draconic Embossment – Agility provides 130 Ag.
  • Jewelcrafting – Self only gems, such as Delicate Chimera’s Eye, can replace the Delicate Inferno Ruby. You can use three of these +67 Agi. gems. Keep in mind that with the intro of epic gems in patch 4.3 the net gain from this prof is only 51 Ag. points.
  • Blacksmithing – Two additional sockets (Socket Bracers and Socket Gloves,) each of which will take a Delicate Inferno Ruby, for a total of 80 more Agility. If you can afford the Delicate Queen’s Garnet then you can slot two of those instead, for a total +100 bonus.
  • Alchemy – Your passive Mixology buff increases the effect of Flask of the Winds by 80 Agility. It also increases the benefit you get from any of your own potions. Additionally, the buff doubles the duration of your flasks. Alchemists are also able to create a Flask of Enhancement for +80 Agility.
  • Enchanting – Enchanters are able to enchant their rings with Enchant Ring – Agility for a total of 80 Agility.
  • Inscription – Scribes are able to put Swiftsteel Inscription for 80 more Agility than any other shoulder enchant.
  • Tailoring – Swordguard Embroidery procs a 15 second long buff (1000 AP) which works out to a value of about 74.5 Agility.
  • Engineering – Synapse Springs adds 480 to one stat, on demand, for 10 seconds with a 60 sec cooldown. It averages to about +80 Ag overall, but you can have it when you want it.
  • Herbalism – Lifeblood provides a heal over time and which also grants you 480 haste rating for a short time, which is about 80 haste rating averaged out over a long fight. This is clearly the best gathering profession for Subtlety rogues.
  • Skinning – Skinners gain Master of Anatomy which gives a passive 80 crit rating. While Sub loves crit, it isn’t nearly as good as Agility.
  • Mining – Miners have 120 stamina from Toughness which provides no DPS gain other than additional survivability. This makes it a better PvP profession then PvE.

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Subtlety Rogue Arena Build – 10/0/31

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Subtlety (31 Points)
  1. Improved Ambush – Rank 3/3 – Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 60% and its damage by 15%.
  2. Relentless Strikes – Rank 3/3 – Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 Energy.
  3. Elusiveness – Rank 2/2 – Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 60 sec, and your Cloak of Shadows and Combat Readiness abilities by 30 sec.
  4. Waylay – Rank 2/2 – Your Ambush and Backstab hits have a 100% chance to unbalance a target, increasing the time between their melee and ranged attacks by 20%, and reducing movement speed by 50% for 8 sec. This is an optional talent, since it overlaps somewhat with Crippling Poison
  5. Opportunity – Rank 3/3 – Increases the damage dealt with your Backstab, Mutilate, Garrote and Ambush abilities by 30%.
  6. Energetic Recovery – Rank 3/3 – Empowers your Recuperate ability, causing its periodic effect to also restore 12 Energy.
  7. Find Weakness – Rank 2/2 – Your Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot abilities reveal a flaw in your target’s defenses, causing all your attacks to bypass 70% of that enemy’s armor for 10 sec.
  8. Hemorrhage – Rank 1/1 – An instant strike that deals 155% weapon damage ((155 * 1.45)% if a dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from Bleed effects for 1 min. Awards 1 combo point.
  9. Honor Among Thieves – Rank 1/3 – Increases the critical strike chance of all party and raid members, including you, by 5%. When any player in your party or raid critically hits with a spell or ability, you have a 33% chance to gain a combo point on your current target. This effect cannot occur more than once every 4 seconds. One point gets that 5% crit bonus. The other two points are nice if you’re doing group PvP (eg: Battlegrounds.)
  10. Premeditation – Rank 1/1 When used, adds 2 combo points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost. Add this to a macro with your opener (eg: Ambush.)
  11. Cheat Death – Rank 3/3 – You have a 100% chance that an attack which would otherwise kill you will instead reduce you to 10% of your maximum health. In addition, all damage taken will be reduced by 80% for 3 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per 90 seconds.
  12. Preparation – Rank 1/1 – When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your Sprint, Vanish, and Shadowstep abilities.
  13. Sanguinary Vein – Rank 2/2 – Increases your damage dealt to targets with a Bleed effect on them by 16% and gives your Bleed effects a 100% chance to not break your Gouge.
  14. Slaughter from the Shadows – Rank 3/3 – Reduces the Energy cost of your Backstab and Ambush abilities by 20, and the Energy cost of your Hemorrhage and Fan of Knives abilities by 6.
  15. Shadow Dance – Rank 1/1 – Enter the Shadow Dance for 6 sec, allowing the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pick Pocket, and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed.

Assassination (10 Points)

  1. Coup de Grace – Rank 2/3 – Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate and Envenom abilities by 14%.
  2. Lethality – Rank 3/3 – Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, Mutilate and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.
  3. Quickening – Rank 2/2 – All healing effects on you are increased by 20% and your movement speed is increased by 15%. This does not stack with most other movement speed increasing effects.
  4. Puncturing Wounds – Rank 3/3 – Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%, and the critical strike chance of your Mutilate ability by 15%. Optional – if you don’t Backstab then spend these points elsewhere.

Combat (0 Points)

  1. None

Glyphs

  1. Glyph of Backstab (Prime Glyph) – Your Backstab critical strikes grant you 5 Energy. Optional – if you don’t Backstab then spend these points elsewhere, such as Eviscerate or
    Slice and Dice.
  2. Glyph of Hemorrhage (Prime Glyph) – Your Hemorrhage ability also causes the target to bleed, dealing 40% of the direct strike’s damage over 24 sec. This is especially useful Vs other Rogues and Ferals (stealthers.)
  3. Glyph of Shadow Dance (Prime Glyph) – Increases the duration of Shadow Dance by 2 sec.
  4. Glyph of Preparation (Major Glyph) – Your Preparation ability also instantly resets the cooldown of Kick, Dismantle, and Smoke Bomb.
  5. Glyph of Blind (Major Glyph) – Your Blind ability also removes all damage over time effects from the target, including your DoT effects, such as Hemo, Rupture, Garrote. The intent is to keep the DoTs from breaking your Blind.
  6. Glyph of Garrote (Major Glyph) – Increases the duration of your Garrote ability’s silence effect by 1.5 sec.
  7. Glyph of Poisons (Minor Glyph) – You apply poisons to your weapons 50% faster.
  8. Glyph of Blurred Speed (Minor Glyph) – Enables you to walk on water while your Sprint ability is active.
  9. Glyph of Distract (Minor Glyph) – Increases the range of your Distract ability by 5 yards.

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Tips for Sneaking and Striking

1 -  Know how to re-stealth
If you can’t re-stealth in combat, you are drastically reducing your survivability. The main techniques for acheiving this are:

  1. blind, move away, and wait to leave combat
  2. gouge/kidney shot your oppenent and run out
  3. get your oppenent crippled and sprint away
  4. vanish
  5. Note: When running away (to re-stealth) it helps if you can break “line of sight” with a convenient building or object.

2 – Don’t blow all your energy

If you sit on a person and spam your main strike, you won’t have enough energy for legitamite burst.

  1. for example, get 5 combo points, wait for full energy, then KS (Kidney Shot) and you will be able to strike at least twice then eviserate.
  2. It’s more efficient burst than if you were to KS with 25 energy and maybe get 1 Hemo and some auto attacks in.

3 – Know the different playstyles and adapt
You don’t try and beat a warrior the same way you beat a priest do you? There are unique ways of handling each class. Generally though, the two main styles a rogue can play are burst and control.

  1. Burst: When you do a lot of damage in a short period of time. This usually involves getting back into stealth again multiple times to get max damage possible.
  2. Control: When you use all CC (Crowd Control) methods available to control an opponent and take them out of the game, so to speak. This means you have to always leave enough energy to gouge and be ready to kick the right school magic. Also blinding into a sap can be a game breaker when speaking in terms of arena.
  3. Defensive: A rogue who needs to be”defensive” would simply try and avoid as much damage as possible. This would include moves like evasion, vanish, blind, dismantle, gouge, and trying to re-stealth.

Like a Warrior – if you have a pocket healer then you will lay waste. Without one you will have to be somewhat careful about picking and choosing.

Otherwise, obviously, the best pvp build depends on who’s in your team, if you have one, and who the other guy is.

Healing – have Recuperate up at all times. It will greatly increase your longevity.

  1. Sub Rogues with HAT, running in groups (BGs) will often have 5 CPs to put into Recup, even before the fight starts. (You should always have an opponent targeted, even if not fighting.) The Energetic Recovery also restores energy. In addition, they can take the Combat Talent Improved Recuperate.
  2. Combat Rogues have a small damage reduction with their Improved Recuperate talent.
  3. Assassination Rogues will need to grab the Combat talent.

 

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